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My daughter ran the half marathon. It was the third one she ran last year. She did very well, thanks for asking! She actually surprised herself because she was injured in the race she ran in September and wasn't sure if she was going to run at all but figured she would try. We actually missed her at the finish because she thought she was going to be slower than she was. I am very proud of her! 

When I was in the psych ward, we had a patient who had no boundaries that was always being exploited by a woman on another unit.  As a joke, I drew up a "transfer of funds" worksheet with a bunch of offbeat questions, like "weight on Jupiter in kilograms" and "great-grandmother's maiden name".  I gave it to her and told her the next time the bum asked, to give her the worksheet.  Well, she actually did so!  The moocher never asked again.

I used to live in an apartment complex for disabled adults, and we had to deal with this frequently.  Some people literally put signs on their doors telling people they wouldn't lend money so don't ask.  I had a reputation for always saying no, so no one bothered me.  The first time you say no is hard, but it gets easier from there.

I have a family member who was a serious moocher. There was  a time when I was debt free and was living off the income from my business. (I am currently recovering from a financial setback.) When she found out that I had achieved my goal of being debt free and was living on the income from my business, she immediately asked for a hand out. I responded "I will teach you how to do what I have done." She declined. That was the last time she ever asked me for a handout. 

That is how I handle moochers. I offer to teach them how to better their financial standing. If they decline, well, so sad for them. If they take me up on it, show genuine interest, and are willing to put in the effort required, I mentor them.

Last edited by Pax

hello everybody  I have been super busy dealing with my oldest, daughter she been living with us for 4 yrs now, she cannot afford $1200 rent , going price  she has eating problem she on food stamps drives , taxi for living. she constantly runs out of food stamps so we  been supporting her  with food,  she finally pays  rent  now $100 a week she has no clue on how to go about finding cheap place to live,    very frustrating she 44 yrs old  , we are in our 60s  retirement  never ends ( I remember there was case when a son was living off his parents for many years until they took him to court. ) hope to get  her out of house by time she reaches 45 next  march  my youngest daughter married been on her own . but my oldest forget it  lol maybe we should move out let her stay hear lol lol we were thinking about that   any how i just have to pray .i dont want her out in streets  its really not a good time for her to move any way do to the virus . and i am glad she did not find place to rent  renting is very bad hear in Florida.  have blessed day 

Hello!

I have some fantastic news for you. :~)

If her income is so low that she qualifies for SNAP (food stamps), she will qualify for low income housing. In addition to that, Florida has many low income housing options. USDA rural development, HUD, your local housing authority, section 8, etc.

If I were you, in a very sad, compassionate, empathetic tone, I would inform her that I recently realized that I have been holding her back from learning how to live independently by letting her live with me. I would apologize for holding her back. I would then explain that, out of love, I am taking corrective action before it is too late. I then would tell her that she has two options open to her. She can either apply to any and all low income housing options that she qualifies for and move out as soon as she is accepted or she can have you file the required paperwork to have her removed. I would let her know the choice is hers. I would then follow through on whichever option she chooses. If she responds with anything other than one of the two options you provided, ask her what the options were. Keep asking until she provides the correct answer. Then ask her again which option she is choosing. Keep that up until she makes a choice from the options you provided. (This is known as going "brain dead". In essence, you are refusing to fall victim to any mind games, refusing to being manipulated by the person you are dealing with, or both.) If you are unable to use a very sad, compassionate, and empathetic tone, then whisper the words. A true whisper has no emotional inflection. So you can be boiling inside and it will *not* come come through in your tone.

Please note, I have an older sister that was very much like what you described your eldest daughter being. Unless the family took proactive action to hold my sister accountable, she would do everything possible to get her way and manipulate others. I mean EVERYTHING, including but not limited to: slander, throwing massive temper tantrums (even as an adult), "losing" things, "forgetting", lying, hitting/abusing others, etc. So, with that in mind, I offer the following additional information and advice:

Typically, low income housing complexes will send the "You are next on the waiting list. Call us by <date> or we will give your spot away to the next person on the waiting list" notifications via postal mail. Some will also follow up with a phone call. I have heard of a few that are looking into email notifications, too. So, keep an eye for said mailing. Keep an ear out for said calls. Have your email address listed as the contact email address on the applications so you will be kept in the loop of when her name is next on the waiting list. When any postal mailing comes from one of the places she applied for, have her open it and read it to you to keep her accountable. (You may want to read over her shoulder while she reads it to you.) When her name comes up, offer to assist her with getting her over there to sign the lease and offer to assist her with moving to her new home. Only assist to the point in which you feel comfortable and no more than that. If you are comfortable paying for it, fine. If you are comfortable with making phone calls to moving companies but not paying for the move, fine. Whatever you are personally comfortable doing. I recommend offering to assist for three reasons:

  • Takes away excuses.
  • Mitigates her feeling like she is being abandoned and helps take away some of the sting.
  • Keeps you in the loop on her progress. 

 

If she refuses to move out, say something along the lines of "Oh honey, it appears you have chosen to have me contact the local authorities and have you removed. No problem. I love you so much that I am willing to do that for you." Use a VERY compassionate and empathetic tone. If you are unable to use said tone, then whisper the words. A true whisper has no emotional inflection. So you can be boiling inside and it will *not* come come through in your tone. Then contact your local authorities on the proper method for evicting and physically removing someone from in your home. Then have her evicted and physically removed. It may be emotionally very hard to do, but it is really best for her that she learns how to be independent before you are no longer able to assist her at all. 

Here are some links to some resources that might be helpful to both you and your eldest daughter: 

https://housingapartments.org/florida_rentals

https://helpbycity.com/

https://www.publichousing.com/

https://www.lowincomehousing.us/FL/

https://rdmfhrentals.sc.egov.u...t_state.jsp?home=YES

https://www.rd.usda.gov/fl

https://www.rd.usda.gov/progra...ng-rental-assistance

https://www.usda.gov/topics/rural/housing-assistance

https://eligibility.sc.egov.us...EligibilityAction.do

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/il.html

https://usdaminc.sc.egov.usda....cs/TenantEligReq.pdf

https://www.211.org/

Be well. Be blessed. 

 

 

Last edited by Pax
@redcatcec posted:

Great post by PAX, Evelyn and family has just been issued a challenge with her eldest daughter, hopefully we'll hear she has followed through and has been successful.

Thanks for the compliment. Yeah, I agree. Hopefully we will hear that Evelyn followed through and has been successful. What she described can be an emotionally hard situation to deal with. Tough love is never easy, but it is often needed.

hello everybody, thank you for your recent concern about on going  situation, with my daughter, she is still living with us. as of now, but she has a job driving a taxi , last month she lost her job in march and i had to support her medication , once her food stamps runs out then we had to make sure she ate . she went back to work in June . she pays me rent ,$100  a week  ( rent in florida is sky  hi, I know she be ok filing for section 8. its two yr waiting list back loged so in the mean time, thank you for resources , somebody gave me  we are working hard to solve this problem .I be  like 70 in 5 month hubby like 68  so we need to move on 

mean time , who ever sent me list of resources I appreciate it cause if she can pay me rent  she be able to pay rent low housing. I appreciate any help out there.  My husband and I plan to sell our old mobile home by the end of the year. . thank you god bless for all the feed back I am still reading up on . ( love penny hoarder ) this is up dated  on 8-10-2020.. feeling blessed, Evelyn O'Rourke         please keep me posted if there any change in low housing in  Hudson, Fl area  t hank u

hello everybody, thank you for your recent concern about on going  situation, with my daughter, she is still living with us. as of now, but she has a job driving a taxi , last month she lost her job in march and i had to support her medication , once her food stamps runs out then we had to make sure she ate . she went back to work in June . she pays me rent ,$100  a week  ( rent in florida is sky  hi, I know she be ok filing for section 8. its two yr waiting list back loged so in the mean time, thank you for resources , somebody gave me  we are working hard to solve this problem .I be  like 70 in 5 month hubby like 68  so we need to move on 

mean time , who ever sent me list of resources I appreciate it cause if she can pay me rent  she be able to pay rent low housing. I appreciate any help out there.  My husband and I plan to sell our old mobile home by the end of the year. . thank you god bless for all the feed back I am still reading up on . ( love penny hoarder ) this is up dated  on 8-10-2020.. feeling blessed, Evelyn O'Rourke         please keep me posted if there any change in low housing in  Hudson, Fl area  t hank u

Hello! Pax here. I am the one that sent you the list of resources. You are welcome. Sadly, you seem to be in a desperate need of a reality check. As it turns out, giving reality checks is my specialty. So here we go. :~)

  • First reality check: I gave you plenty of resources. I am NOT going to keep track of the low income housing options for your area. Nope.. That is YOUR and YOUR DAUGHTER'S responsibility. 
  • Second reality check: There is a great chance that your daughter will need to move out of Hudson, FL for low income housing. People often have to move to places of lower cost of living in order to survive. That is just part of life. 
  • Third reality check: There are places that do not charge rent if one's income is low enough. They will even give an utility allowance to assist with paying for electricity, etc. There really is no need for her to live with you any longer. She needs to put forth effort, apply to all low income housing options in at least a 100 mile radius (maybe more), and reap the benefits of said work and efforts.
  • Fourth reality check: You need to stop enabling her and preventing her from growing up and mastering the next stage of life - independence.

 

I do not mean to be harsh. However, I have lived on $200 a month with a growing child to support. I had no child support, no alimony, and no assistance from any human being. That is right - I had no one to take me in, no one offering or providing financial support, no one providing food for us. There were those that did their best to make things far worse on me and my child, though. There were those that did what they could to sabotage my efforts to raise him as single mother. 

Even with all that, I managed to find a low income housing solution that kept myself and my child off the streets. I managed to feed myself and my child organic and well balanced meals fully paid by the food stamps the gov't provided -- not much by the way. Less than $200 a month. How did I do it? Glad you asked. :~) I did it by mastering the following:

  • frugality
  • comprehensive understanding of health and wellness concepts such as natural and food based remedies
  • which foods contained the best nutritional bang the for buck
  • nutritional needs of the human body both for adults and children.

 

I grow very weary and frustrated when I hear people stating that they or someone else have no choice or no options available. That they are somehow helpless victims of their circumstances. Options and solutions are out there. One must be solution focused to find them. One must also do the work and put forth true effort to find them and take advantage of them. There are no excuses.

I live in Florida. I know what the rent is like here. I also know there are places that will charge rent based upon one's income. If one's income is low enough, one can live at those places for free. One can even get funds from the property management to assist with paying for utilities. It is called an utility allowance. There are Christian churches that will take in people and charge them NOTHING. They only expect the person to take part in services, be respectful, treat the place with respect, and help out. Some do not even expect the person to take part in services. There are shelters where people can live for free while getting 3 free meals a day, a warm bed with clean bedding, showers, etc. If you had reviewed the resources I provided, you would have found several options for her -- even if she had 0 income. Yes, 0 income as in no income at all. You would have also found that there are organizations that will assist with utility payments, organizations that will provide free food (aka food banks), organizations that would assist her with finding housing options, organizations that provide free clothing and household goods, etc. 

Unless she is legally incompetent, there are no excuses. NONE. Hmmmm... even then, maybe not. One could always petition a court for a guardian/conservator for her. But since she was driving a taxi cab, I doubt that is the issue. So, yeah. No excuses. NONE.

Again, I do not mean to be harsh. But reality is reality.

There are solutions for your situation. But you must be willing to implement said solutions. 

Last edited by Pax

I remember going to a talk at our local school by an author, Anthony Wolf, who said a parent should not negotiate with their child if the parent says no to something because the child will always come up with an argument and it keeps going around and around. My take on this was it was more for young children but I'm sure it would work if you have an adult child who is taking extreme advantage of their parent. Anyway, I think Pax has the right idea and it seems similar to what I just wrote. Pax also has listed so many resources that it is amazing! 

I am in favor of negotiating with children and adults when appropriate. I am also in favor of taking more of a consultant role with children and adults when appropriate. However, there are times when one must have boundaries with both children and adults -- and those boundaries must be respected and reinforced.

My sister never learned how to be independent. As a result, when Mom and Dad could no longer support her, she went from one abusive relationship to another. She never seemed to realize that she was a smart, clever, and capable human being. (She is extremely intelligent.) She never seemed to realize that she deserved to be treated with respect and as an equal. Throughout her childhood, she was treated as an incompetent, as someone that should never have to face the consequences of her actions, someone who natural and logical consequences would be too much for her to bear, someone who was too worthless to invest quality time into or to be mentored, someone who never deserved to be treated with respect, someone to be resented and treated with contempt. As children often do, she accepted others' assessments of her and internalized it. (Children do their best up their parents expectations, no matter how high or low their parents set them.)

When I read Evelyn's post, I thought of my sister. What would have been most beneficial to my sister back in the day when she and her daughter were living off of my parents and food stamps? When they lived with us, what would have been the most empowering thing? For Mom and Dad to show her how to be independent. For Mom and Dad to hold her accountable instead of making excuses. For Mom and Dad to tell her via their actions "You got this! We KNOW you can do this! We believe in you so much, that we are going to give you advice, inform you of your options, let you decide which options you want to take, and then, out of love, let you live with your choices. You are capable of taking care of yourself, of making wise choices, of being independent, of facing reality, and of dealing with the natural consequences of your actions. We are going to do everything we can to empower you to be independent. Once you achieve independence, we will do our best to guide you on how to become an interdependent adult and reach your full potential." But alas, that was never done. Not for her. Not for me, either. My dear sister has suffered greatly for it as have all of her children and her grandchildren. (The bad parenting skills were passed down from one generation to the next. Seems as though each generation did a worse job than the one before it. Me, I came across a parent support group at work lead by "Love and Logic". I embraced the "Love and Logic" parenting methodology and broke the cycle.)

We parents are responsible for building a bridge from dependence to independence for our children. Parent birds will shove the baby birds out of the nest if the baby birds do not leave on their own. The parent birds will then keep an eye on the fledglings, providing assistance while teaching them how to be independent. We humans need to do the same thing for our children.


My goal with my advice and reality checks was empowerment. I got the impression that Evelyn felt that her husband, her eldest daughter, and herself were trapped and there were no options for them. Ideally, I have given them enough to empower them to resolve the situation. If they need additional resources, I will gladly provide links, etc. However, it will be up to them to decide if empowering their eldest daughter and preparing her for life as an independent adult is worth the effort, the potential heart ache, and the work that it will take. 

Last edited by Pax

I simplified my comment about not negotiating with a child. Of course there are times when you give a child choices but I meant (this is an extreme example) that if a 6 year old were to ask if they could play with matches, the answer by most parents would be an unequivocal "NO". Or if a teenager wants to go to a party where you know there will be no supervision, you might say no and if you say no, unless you find out that it would be safe you can change your mind. Also, it was a long time ago that I went to that talk by that author so I really don't remember every detail. Anyway, I hope Evelyn takes what you have said to heart and helps her adult daughter become independent. It would make her life so much easier and less stressful. You have given her so much good advice. I hope it isn't too overwhelming for her.

hi guys , thank you so much for feed back, thank you for guidance. my hubby wanted to toss her out this past yr but with pandemic we felt we had to wait so now were taken action. she is going to move out by end of this year around her 45 birthday.. we already told her last night.  I made copies of the application for Florida section 8  she will fill them out in front of us . I will mail out the application. oh she plays her mind games especially during the pandemic. I told her the only way she was going to stay is in this house we are selling our house end of this year. but she not going with us . she was on disability back  in 2002 for 10 yrs but she worked at hotel, she is capabile of working but she pure out right lazy getting real job , this past yr i guess she took the easy way out getting any old job that had  daily income, she did look for place to stay before the pandemic back in March . she did go see a few agencies, back in march . but right now to day she is working, I told her yesterday  if she can afford to pay me $100 rent money a week she can look for another place, to live so we will be putting the house up for sale . thank you so much for guidence and on going support.  god bless   (ps as of last nite the hubby told her she has to look for another place and to file section 8 she is not going to live with us  much longer we are working to gether as we speak  )

hi guys , thank you so much for feed back, thank you for guidance. my hubby wanted to toss her out this past yr but with pandemic we felt we had to wait so now were taken action. she is going to move out by end of this year around her 45 birthday.. we already told her last night.  I made copies of the application for Florida section 8  she will fill them out in front of us . I will mail out the application. oh she plays her mind games especially during the pandemic. I told her the only way she was going to stay is in this house we are selling our house end of this year. but she not going with us . she was on disability back  in 2002 for 10 yrs but she worked at hotel, she is capabile of working but she pure out right lazy getting real job , this past yr i guess she took the easy way out getting any old job that had  daily income, she did look for place to stay before the pandemic back in March . she did go see a few agencies, back in march . but right now to day she is working, I told her yesterday  if she can afford to pay me $100 rent money a week she can look for another place, to live so we will be putting the house up for sale . thank you so much for guidence and on going support.  god bless   (ps as of last nite the hubby told her she has to look for another place and to file section 8 she is not going to live with us  much longer we are working to gether as we speak  )

Awesomeness!! Good for you and for your daughter! You are most welcome. Feel free to reach out if you need any advice, support, resource leads, etc. We are rooting for you! :~)

Last edited by Pax

Hi all! My name is Kim and my husband and I live in Melbourne, Australia. I have a moocher brother-in-law who lives with us. He is currently 31 years old. He moved to Australia from France in September 2018. He is currently on a student visa as his parents sent him here to make a better life for himself.

Since the COVID-19 pandemic started here in March 2020 I have been working from home so I have observed things with him that aren’t quite right. All he does 5 days a week is lay on the couch playing video games and watching TV, while my husband and I work our butts off. My brother-in-law only works once a week and sometimes not even that.

He is meant to be doing online study. I’ve been pretty understanding with his studies because they have been disrupted due to COVID-19. His previous college that he was studying at went bankrupt so he had to start at a new one. I’m pretty sure his studies at his new college have started by now as all the schools are back up and running. As far as I can see not much studying is being done online and I can certainly see he’s not studying on campus. He is always very sketchy when he’s asked about his studies. Not sure why.



I’m going to have a chat with my husband because he needs to find out what’s going on with his brother. My husband doesn’t seem to want to interfere with his brother. I don’t see it as interfering. He does live with us, so if he’s not studying properly he needs to find more permanent work. I won’t tolerate lying on the couch all day playing video games and watching TV. If he can’t adhere to that then he needs to find alternative accommodation or else go back to France.

I do like my brother-in-law in general but the mooching just puts me off.

You husband seems to be the weak end of this marriage. It was a mistake to move him in, in the first place. The 2 of you-you and your husband need to come up with a plan for his swift removal from your household. Formulate it and let your BIL know you are serious and mean business. Really soon, 1-2 weeks and make it stick. No excuses at all. Have your BIL find an apartment on his own because that is where he'll be going, or a room, it is up to him, lots of people are looking for roommates to share the rent.  You both will be helping him grow up and accept responsibilities that you both have accepted, now it is his turn. If he refuses to leave, pack his bags and put him out. Change the locks. I don't know what the laws are in Australia, you may have to formally evict him, if it comes to that, which is a longer process. Be firm and support each other, remember you took vows, let no man put asunder. Let us know how this turns out.

Thanks for the advice guys! So helpful! I was chatting to my parents about it and they think for the moment not to say anything and to see what happens in January next year as things start to gain a sense of normalcy after COVID. If there is a rift between my husband and his brother I could be blamed for it by my parents-in-law. @redcatcec We thought he would use the opportunities of being in a new country but he hasn’t at all.

i so enjoy learning from you all i have a granddaughter who is always asking for 30.00 dollars every other week, always pays me back, but i just wish she could make her paycheck last to the next one, other then that i play the poor me mom and grand mother, i save my money, i am on a fixed income, my husband who passed taught me how to save, and i am greatful for that

Just an update on my moocher brother-in-law situation in the above post. In the last few months things have improved. He has a job 3 days a week at a warehouse and he’s supposed to be doing online study 3 days a week as he’s on a student visa.

Not entirely sure how much studying is actually being done, but he’s an adult. I suppose it’s his problem if he’s not doing well in his studies. My husband and I may be moving interstate in a few months, so he’ll need to stay in Melbourne to finish his course while we will be in Perth. I think that scared him a bit that we may be moving cause he realised he can’t rely on us anymore.

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